Saturday, October 25, 2008

Itzhack Perlman on Gay Marriage



When it's your kid they're talking about or someone else you know and love, the answer is obvious. If live in a community where gay people have to stay in the closet until they leave (I'm looking at you, Orthodox Judaism and Mormonism) maybe it's not so obvious.

18 comments:

Bishrirus said...

You must be one of those that have not yet realized that being Gay is a sickness! When this fails, Its a Yetzer Hora. Failing that its a choice they could do without.

There not many matters where religion has a pronounced view, that i could openly disagree with in my community. At least not for everyone. This issue is one that i am constantly vocal about. I see it as a basic human rights issue that must be redefined and better understood even in religious societies.

Of course the Torah forbids it. I am out not to change the torah, but to affect the personal judgements by people. If someone accepts that change of view, and later wants to take issue with the Torah, all the better. But that would be their own business.

Nephtuli said...

Would this have happened if the legislature (with Arnold's signature) had created SSM in California? I don't know, but I would sure like to find out for a change, instead of the courts making the decisions for them.

Holy Hyrax said...

now that was an original promotion

jewish philosopher said...

If gays, have rights why don't heroin users have right? And why don't chickens have rights? All this righteous indignation about homophobia is just a veiled hatred of Torah.

Margo said...

They did a good job with this video. I hope it works!

asher said...

this video is pretty lame. I don't believe Perlman lives in California which begs the question of why he's telling those citizens on how to vote. He also makes the claim that his daughter has already married her partner. So, he's really asking them not to change the law to make their marriage unlawful.

In all, it comes down to what is good for Perlman's family. Not what is best for society or for the future generations...this is a feelings based idea. When kids are given the option to believe they can marry someone of either sex, you really have to wonder what effect that might have on everyone.
Since gays are, at most, 7% of the population of the country, this looks like a minority imposing their will on the majority.

What is really strange is that Californians have already voted to get rid of same sex marriage. That was indeed the voice of the people. When someone argues states' rights it inevitable means what the courts have decided. Or, the tyranny of the minority.

Margo said...

Asher--
America is not mob rule; the majority does not determine the rules. If the overwhelming majority of Americans voted to kill all of the Jews, or to not allow Jews to hold lucrative jobs, or to close all Orthodox Jewish schools, the government would still be bound to protect Jews, despite the fact that they make up such a small part of the country. (Smaller than the number of gay people, I might add.)
America protects minorities. That's why it was founded. The founders were trying to escape persecution as the minorities in England, primarily, and they set up a country where everyone has equal rights to worship the God they believe in and marry the consenting adult they love, among other ideals.
As for Perlman-why does he have to live in California to want all of U.S. law to protect minorities? I don't see the problem.

Holy Hyrax said...

>America protects minorities. That's why it was founded.

Really? I thought this country was formed to rid itself of a tyrant leader and to give the people the power. A true democracy. I can assume you that they did not form this country that anyone can marry anyone that they loved (that is regardless of how later law is interpreted). But at least get history right.

>America is not mob rule; the majority does not determine the rules.

Actually, they do, as long as its constitutional...which is obviously, what this whole discussion is about. But its weird how anything you dislike is immediatly equated to a mob rule.

The Candy Man said...

What, no violin solo? Seriously, though, I am SO happy to see you giving this cause its due here on JA. I have so many gay friends and Proposition 8 makes them feel terrible. "It's like a knife through the heart," one of them told me.

I've been blogging about it too and am also accepting donations from those sympathetic to the cause.

Anonymous said...

Gay do have the same rights as everyone. A gay man has the same rights as a heterosexual to marry a woman. And a lesbain has the same right as a heterosexual woman to marry a man.

Tigerboy said...

"Gay do have the same rights as everyone. A gay man has the same rights as a heterosexual to marry a woman. And a lesbain has the same right as a heterosexual woman to marry a man."

I LOVE this argument!

We, as a society, have NO GOOD REASON to sanction same-sex unions, to allow these couples the dignity enjoyed by everyone else, to encourage stable family units, to create an environment of respect so that their children are not made to feel like second-class citizens, to provide the same financial and legal benefits enjoyed by all other hard-working, tax-paying married couples in this country . . . etc. . . .

BECAUSE, these people can just LIE to themselves and their soon-to-be-sex-deprived-new-opposite-sex partners about the reality of their true sexual interests.

Excellent!

That should work out well for all concerned.

Bishrirus said...

>If gays, have rights why don't heroin users have right?

Quite ridiculous.
Heroin users have the same rights as everyone else. But rules concerning physical or emotional harm have their place in civil society. Everyone bleeds red and we are all in the same pot. Religious views have no business poking their noses into society at large. No one has moral superiority to preach to others.

>And why don't chickens have rights?

What a parallel! Why do religious people have rights?


>All this righteous indignation about homophobia is just a veiled hatred of Torah.

Why avoid the issue? You might say that some who attack torah will continue doing so even if the rules were changed. But that doesn’t mitigate the problem of homophobia.

Bishrirus said...

>Since gays are, at most, 7% of the population of the country, this looks like a minority imposing their will on the majority.

That logic will make the vote a foregone conclusion then...

Anonymous said...

Tigerboy:

Yuo know equal rights can't guarantee equal outcomes.

Yor arguement of a marriage not working out if gays practice thier right to marry a member of the opposite sex applies equally to people who are ugly, impotent, or have personality problems.

Homosexuals are not demanding eqaul rights. They already have identical rights. They want a new right.

Margo said...

Holy Hyrax--
"and to give the people the power"
That's right. All people, including minorities. A large motivation for founding this country was religious persecution that the founders suffered in their home countries for being part of minority religions.
The fact that, according to Asher, gays are at most 7% of the population should not matter. Whether or not it is constitutional to outlaw same-sex marriage, and I believe that it is unconstitutional, has nothing to do with what the masses want, which is what Asher implied.
My comment about mob rule was in response to this idea that since gays are a minority and the majority of this country does not want them to marry their partners, they should not have this right. The majority doesn't get to randomly decide how to treat the minority.

Holy Hyrax said...

Excellent!

That should work out well for all concerned.


If you are discussing "law" then I believe it IS an argument. Since under the law, we ALL are being treated equally.

>same financial and legal benefits enjoyed by all other hard-working, tax-paying married couples in this country

You can give them that, without being married.

Discussing dignity and all that stuff that you typed will vary from person to person. If you are arguing dignity than give everyone that dignity including insectutoius couples and bigamist. Everyone is going to put the boundary where they please. Frankly, we all have compassion, but my compassion stops when certain standards are crossed.

Holy Hyrax said...

>was religious persecution that the founders suffered in their home countries for being part of minority religions.

Margo,

The founding fathers were born in the colonies, so which persecution were they experiencing?

>The fact that, according to Asher, gays are at most 7% of the population should not matter

You are right, but I don't think a minority is immediatly correct in all their activism just because they are a minority.

>The majority doesn't get to randomly decide how to treat the minority.

I do not believe the majority is "treating" them like anything. They have every right you and I have. West Hollywood Patrol cars are colored in the Gay colors of the rainbow. They question is do they get to have something that many (or most) feel that by definition does not apply to them.

Tigerboy said...

"Whites have the same right to marry other whites as everyone else."

"Blacks have the same right to marry other blacks as everyone else."

Whom does it hurt if we allow tax-paying, law-abiding citizens the right to marry the partner of their choice?