Monday, November 06, 2006

The Ted Haggard Post

Although I didn't know who he was at the time, Ted Haggard has appeared on this blog before. He was in the trailer for the terrifying documentary Jesus Camp.

Here he is preaching to his congregation (not in the trailer):

How creepy is that?

His hypocrisy pretty much speaks for itself, but I'd like you to imagine what his life would have been like if (many) Christians didn't consider homosexuality a sin. Haggard could have been open about his sexual orientation from the beginning. He could have found himself a nice Christian boy instead of ensnaring an innocent woman in a fraudulent marriage. He could have had a meaningful relationship instead of paying for sex from a meth-dealing prostitute. He and his partner could have adopted orphans in need of parents and raised them honestly instead of fathering five children who must now feel humiliated and betrayed beyond measure. He could have preached for love instead of against homosexuality.

Homosexuality isn't a sin. Treating it like a sin is a sin.

(Video clip via Andrew Sullivan.)


jewish philosopher said...

I would probably chop Haggard's head off too. No more sinning for him.

Jewish Atheist said...

We get it, JP. You want gays killed. Let's move on.

jewish philosopher said...

OK, so I'm not Hillary Clinton.

But how can I help it? You keep pushing this gay stuff.

stephen said...

Jewish Philosopher:
JA is not "pushing this gay stuff". He is advocating tolerance, compassion, life. These are the best values of organized religion.

Whereas you are advocating …?

"No one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter."

In other words, give me JA's atheism to your sick religion any day.

jewish philosopher said...

Gays are sick.

I'm pro-God. And I bet a lot of people agree with me.

In practice, I don't believe in violence however I do believe in supporting restrictions on gay rights.

Half Sigma said...

Even heterosexual people get married to partners they later decide don't provide enough sexual thrills.

Isn't it still immoral to cheat, even if the cheating doesn't involve homosexuality?

Jewish Atheist said...


That's a fair point. I can't prove that he wouldn't have cheated on a male spouse. Still, I suspect his obvious self-hatred is what caused a lot of the self-destructive behavior. I'm assuming he's not a total fraud -- I think he probably legitimately believes in monogamy and would have been successful in creating a stable relationship had he been able to be honest about his sexuality.

beautiful-stranger said...

maybe if he would have gotten his priorities straitened out, he wouldnt look like a total jerk .

however, its a sin to be gay, but righteous to lie and be dishonest?

what hypocracy..! get a life moron..!

dbackdad said...

Wow. I was all ready to comment on the hypocrisy of a gay evangelical when the equally compelling case of Jewish Philosopher arose.

From JP's own blog, a laughable refutation of atheism, a particulary poignant question:

#9 - If no God exists, why are we obligated to be nice to other people?
Jewish answer: God obligates us to do to others as we want them to do to us.

So, the obvious extension of this would be that you would offer your head.

I pity you.

skcorefil said...

with all these religious and conservative gay people getting caught being horrible people, it could possibly explain why conservatives and religious people think gays are bad. The ones in their circles do do horrible things.

^I realize that isn't actually a true explaination.

David said...

I'm sure you've probably seen this, but just in case

beepbeepitsme said...

Being a christian means ONLY having to say you are sorry. It is a religion which at its heart, denies responibility for action.

Juggling Mother said...

I have to say this - despite the fact that I think the world would be a much better place without Haggard in it (and not because of his sexual preferences), - but having a homosexual relationship does not necessarily mean his marriage is a sham, or that his children are unloved.

asher said...


Thanks for that clip of Dawkins vs. Haggard. Dawkins comes off as an arrogant child who thinks he knows it all and Haggard comes off as a patient parent.

Jewish Atheist said...

Juggling Mother

I certainly didn't mean to say he doesn't love his children. I'm not sure about how authentic his marriage is, though. Perhaps he's just a bi-sexual who had an affair with a prostitute, but I suspect he's gay and hid it from his wife. I feel for him in some ways, but the fact that he actively worked to make the country a worse place for other gay people makes him pretty bad in my eyes.

jewish philosopher said...

We must treat good people the way we would want to be treated. Criminals, perverts and pederasts are different.

Foilwoman said...

JA: I hate to say this, but the schadenfreude I've felt this week has been so strong it feels absolutely sinful (and pleasurable that way, too). And isn't this poetic justice for Mr. Haggard almost absolute proof (as much as you and I will ever find) that there is a god? Or at least that the universe has a sense of both humor and irony?

The Tzionisher Rebbe said...

Homosexuality carries the death penalty in halacha. That means that when there is a Beis Hamikdash, a Sanhedrin sitting on Har Habayis, and witnesses come to testify against a homosexual, the homosexual will be put to death. Today, of course, we do not have the right to put anyone to death, as we lack all of the above.

Homosexuality is a sin. Not keeping Shabbas is a sin. Not keeping the other 611 mitzvahs are also sins.

If one chooses not to keep Torah and mitzvahs, that is his/her choice. They may even have enough zchuyos to get into heaven, ad 120. But, they are not following the Toarh. For those who don't care, they don't care. For those who do care, do not fool yourself.

The Rebbe

Half Sigma said...

"Not keeping Shabbas is a sin. Not keeping the other 611 mitzvahs are also sins. "

Thats why Judaism sucks as a religion.

As Christian, all you have to do is believe in Jesus, and you get into Heaven.

In Judaism you have to follow 611 laws, and all you get out of it is g uilt.

Mark said...

I'm curious what you mean by the word "sin" as an atheist. As a theist I take it to mean, "those acts or impulses which move me away from God". How does an atheist parse that?

Jewish Atheist said...

"Sin" is an immoral action. I don't want to get into the whole "how can atheists have morals" discussion here, though.

Mark said...

I wasn't looking for that discussion. It just struck me that "sin" was an odd word for an atheist to us, given my understanding of what it meant.