tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post7770833380143218834..comments2024-01-24T04:59:45.518-05:00Comments on Jewish Atheist: Linguistic SnobberyJewish Atheisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-73428629279407617232007-03-27T20:48:00.000-04:002007-03-27T20:48:00.000-04:00Nice post and nice blog. :)"Fig leaf" is a great f...Nice post and nice blog. :)<BR/><BR/>"Fig leaf" is a great formulation for the presciptivists' appeals to logic and effective communication. I wanted to point out that, besides the perfectly understandable utterances that are stigmatized, there are also major differences in how much dialect-based confusion gets stigmatized. People from Scotland, New Zealand, India, and Arkansas will sometimes be hard for Californians to understand. Most of the time, the former two groups will be perceived as "just like us" and the differences as quaint. Indian English might create some chuckles at the "goofy foreigners", but the people who speak it won't generally be considered unintelligent. Arkansans, however, are likely to be perceived as rubes, even if one is giving a lecture on organic chemistry. "Communication" does not explain this; bigotry does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-8547019169681342402007-03-27T09:55:00.000-04:002007-03-27T09:55:00.000-04:00The simplest form of prescription is proscription,...The simplest form of prescription is proscription, and we're all happy to see words like "kike" proscribed, aren't we? I do wonder (1) whether any anti-prescriptivists ever take that attitude to their own children, and (2) whether there is anything that might be called scientific evidence on these linguistic matters - are they just ex-cathedra pronouncements on matters of taste? (I refer both to prescriptivist and anti-prescriptivist pronouncements.)deariemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06654632450454559188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-74412524601802347582007-03-24T18:56:00.000-04:002007-03-24T18:56:00.000-04:00Have you read any David Crystal? You'd appreciate ...Have you read any David Crystal? You'd appreciate "The Fight for English: How Language Pundits Ate, Shot, and Left".Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322255547729348534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-89706075119618367472007-03-23T12:17:00.000-04:002007-03-23T12:17:00.000-04:00random:Adhering to a common set of agreed usages a...random:<BR/><BR/><I>Adhering to a common set of agreed usages and formats facilitates communication, "doing your own thing" inhibits it.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not talking about people simply making up their own non-obvious spellings and grammar, but rather usage which is common and perfectly understandable yet derided, such as the examples I referenced. Also, one can be completely unclear while using perfect grammar.<BR/><BR/>CL:<BR/><BR/>Thanks!<BR/><BR/>language:<BR/><BR/>Yes, that is funny. Prescriptivists often have the worst (in my opinion) style, since they are constrained by such stupid rules.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-54885951503368068782007-03-23T12:13:00.000-04:002007-03-23T12:13:00.000-04:00I thought of something funny to add. A lot of Ort...I thought of something funny to add. A lot of Orthodox Jews, for example, who think "He dumb" is "bad" English have no problem with Hebrew's virtually identical lack of the present tense form of "to be."Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-45181300349139307822007-03-23T12:02:00.000-04:002007-03-23T12:02:00.000-04:00the purpose of language is communication.Exactly, ...<I>the purpose of language is communication.</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly, and all the "bad" sentences quoted in the post communicate perfectly well -- people who object are objecting to the <I>form</I> but cover their elitist objection with a figleaf of invented concern for "communication." Fortunately, this carries its own punishment: exactly the sort of obsessive self-monitoring for "mistakes" that results in "after having read this defence of proper English in preview, I count at least three arguable grammatic errors that it would be too much troubnle to remove." If all these people would get over their prescriptivist nonsense, their own lives would be easier.Languagehathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285708503881129380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-89135586981812606702007-03-23T05:45:00.000-04:002007-03-23T05:45:00.000-04:00I agree. I wrote a post joking about prescriptivi...I agree. I wrote a post joking about prescriptivism too: <A HREF="http://lfab-uvm.blogspot.com/2006/01/grammar-police-rules-are-meant-to-be.html" REL="nofollow"> Grammar Police: Rules are meant to be, like, broken</A>.C. L. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698855413639518095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-52723336528237456052007-03-23T05:25:00.000-04:002007-03-23T05:25:00.000-04:00Here's a thought - the purpose of language is comm...Here's a thought - the purpose of language is communication. Adhering to a common set of agreed usages and formats facilitates communication, "doing your own thing" inhibits it. And frankly it's a highly selfish thing to insist that your audience should do the work necessary to understand you, rather than you doing the work necessary to ensure you are understood.<BR/><BR/>And yes, prescriptivism can go too far ("this is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put", as Winston Churchill is reported to have replied when some civil servant corrected a perfectly understandable sentence of his that he had ended with a preposition), but using clear, understandable English is simply a matter of courtesy. Which doesn't rule out the use of regional dialects or accents - "clear, understandable" is obviously context dependent - but it does suggest some thought is given to one's audience.<BR/><BR/>(Urgh, after having read this defence of proper English in preview, I count at least three arguable grammatic errors that it would be too much troubnle to remove. Oh, well. {Actually, that's now four - a sentence without a verb...})Randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12510273350131579837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-64763397245189962592007-03-22T20:47:00.000-04:002007-03-22T20:47:00.000-04:00amen :-)amen :-)Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07694556690190505030noreply@blogger.com