tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post115176817576655751..comments2024-01-24T04:59:45.518-05:00Comments on Jewish Atheist: Dissecting my Opposite Day EntryJewish Atheisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151869252816734592006-07-02T15:40:00.000-04:002006-07-02T15:40:00.000-04:00Wow! you left it a long time. I did the rebuttal ...Wow! you left it a long time. I did the <A HREF="http://jugglingmother.blogspot.com/2006/02/load-of-tosh_114115666902541462.html#links" REL="nofollow">rebuttal</A> of my <A HREF="http://jugglingmother.blogspot.com/2006/02/challenging-thoughts.html#links" REL="nofollow">opposite day</A> post almost immediately. Didn't want anyone stumbling upon it accidently & getting the wrong idea (despite the disclaimer at the top & bottom of the post):-)<BR/><BR/>It was interesting reading yours - obviously written by someone with so much more knowledge of the bible than me:-)<BR/><BR/>It was a good experiment. I'd love to read some more.Juggling Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02711012401065605739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151856581836139162006-07-02T12:09:00.000-04:002006-07-02T12:09:00.000-04:00"One could continue to maintain that there is a tr..."One could continue to maintain that there is a true (tm) Christianity which 95%+ of "Christians" don't follow."<BR/><BR/>Something which just about every Christian who belongs to a church/faith tradition with less than 100 million members (approx 5% of worldwide Christianity) would agree with, frankly. Make of that what you will...<BR/><BR/>"And a true Hebrew reader would tell you that it's a mistranslation (like Isaiah 7:14.)"<BR/><BR/>Well, I'm no scholar of these things, but the online version of the English Standard version (which those who are scholars seem to believe to be the most literally accurate modern translation)reads "pierced" with a footnote that says "Some Hebrew manuscripts, Septuagint, Vulgate, Syriac; most Hebrew manuscripts like a lion [they are at] my hands and feet". I still think my interpretation of the episode holds up better than the crisis of faith one, though.Randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12510273350131579837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151856513726835232006-07-02T12:08:00.000-04:002006-07-02T12:08:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12510273350131579837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151816525504888122006-07-02T01:02:00.000-04:002006-07-02T01:02:00.000-04:00Absolutely right, David. I noted that on preview ...Absolutely right, David. I noted that on preview and meant to change it to "scientific materialism," but I must have forgotten.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151798884129253652006-07-01T20:08:00.000-04:002006-07-01T20:08:00.000-04:00uberpropagandist:Now can we do one for and against...uberpropagandist:<BR/><BR/><I>Now can we do one for and against modern orthodoxy?</I><BR/><BR/>Hmm.. Maybe. :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>random:<BR/><BR/><I>did you have people questioning if you were really an atheist if you could write something like that?:-)</I><BR/><BR/>Nah.. I just thought it would be fun and instructive to take it apart. :-)<BR/><BR/><I>Or, to put it another way, the Spanish Inquisition no more invalidates Christianity as a belief system than the NKVD invalidates atheism.</I><BR/><BR/>Although it doesn't necessarily invalidate some potential ideal of Christianity, it, combined with the many other awful things committed in Jesus's name, largely invalidates Christianity <B>as it's practiced.</B> One could continue to maintain that there is a true (tm) Christianity which 95%+ of "Christians" don't follow.<BR/><BR/>I could then point out that Jesus, being God, should have known this would happen and done a better job of preventing it. :-) How about getting rid of the first two commandments and replacing them with "Thou shalt not forcibly convert anyone" and "Thou shalt not condone slavery." And He should have been a lot more clear about "Don't murder." ;-)<BR/><BR/><I>A true (ahem) Christian would point out that Jesus is quoting the opening line of the 22nd Psalm, which both appears to predict the crucifixion...</I><BR/><BR/>And a true Hebrew reader would tell you that it's a mistranslation (like Isaiah 7:14.)<BR/><BR/>הקיפוני כארי ידי ורגלי<BR/><BR/>means "like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet," not "they pierced my hands and my feet."<BR/><BR/>Some Christians will point to the Septuagint, which uses the word ωρυξαν, which apparently means "dug" rather than "lion." I don't read Greek, but from what I can glean online, "dug" doesn't carry the implication of "piercing." Although the Septuagint is older than the Masoretic text, I don't see any legitimate reason to translate the word as "pierced" when the original makes more sense in context (we've been talking about dogs and bulls and a lion was mentioned just a couple verses earlier) and translating it as "pierced" is a little too convenient.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151794395084027432006-07-01T18:53:00.000-04:002006-07-01T18:53:00.000-04:00I'm intrigued as to why you felt it necessary to w...I'm intrigued as to why you felt it necessary to write this post (don't get me wrong, I think it's an excellent and intriguing one - as indeed was the original "opposite day" post) - did you have people questioning if you were really an atheist if you could write something like that?:-)<BR/><BR/>To be honest, I can't even pick any bones with it, appart from a couple of places anyway!<BR/><BR/>1) "No true Scotsman" - I have to say that I do think this is a valid argument. Or, to put it another way, the Spanish Inquisition no more invalidates Christianity as a belief system than the NKVD invalidates atheism.<BR/><BR/>2) "Of course, I left out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?""<BR/><BR/> You shouldn't have. A true (ahem) Christian would point out that Jesus is quoting the opening line of the 22nd Psalm, which both appears to predict the crucifixion ("My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.") and the ultimate victory of the one being crucified ("All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.") Far from being the crisis of faith that some interpret this passage as representing, what Jesus is actually doing is reaching through his pain to teach those followers still with him that all that has happened was prophesied and meant to happen and that this is only the beginning of the story, not the end. Surely it's a sign of the truth of Christianity that even at the moment of his death Jesus is still struggling to teach his message? Would a mere con artist have bothered to do this? (Or at least that's how you could have put it in your "opposite day" post:-))Randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12510273350131579837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151781150369596522006-07-01T15:12:00.000-04:002006-07-01T15:12:00.000-04:00LoL. You are a Talmudist. Well impressed by you ab...<I>LoL. You are a Talmudist. Well impressed by you ability to argue for both sides.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I'm sure my parents think their Day School education money was very well spent. ;-)<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>On a side note - did you steal the colour scheme of my blog? :-)</I><BR/><BR/>Just a standard template. Looks nice, though, eh? ;-)Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13054771.post-1151779699931312892006-07-01T14:48:00.000-04:002006-07-01T14:48:00.000-04:00LoL. You are a Talmudist. Well impressed by you ...LoL. You are a Talmudist. Well impressed by you ability to argue for both sides.<BR/><BR/>On a side note - did you steal the colour scheme of my blog? :-)BHChhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08178467606233596591noreply@blogger.com